Johnnie Jackson arrived here with a glittering CV, but he believes the experiences of the past two years have shaped him to become a much better manager who fully gets what it means to lead the Dons.
The man who grew up attending matches at Arsenal’s old home at Highbury with his father is now fully invested in everything at Plough Lane and his son Bobby is even a ballboy at our matches!
Having played in all four English divisions – actually scoring in each one – and achieved the full set of coaching badges, Johnnie cut his managerial teeth at Charlton, where he’s still revered for his playing achievements.
However, Johnnie acknowledges that he’s had to come through tough times to take Wimbledon forward and ahead of a match today that could secure a top half League Two finish the 41-year-old talked in-depth about what he’s learned and his determination to guide us to promotion.
In case you missed it in the Walsall programme, the full interview with Johnnie is reproduced below.
What age did you start doing your coaching badges?
It was in my late 20s when I first started thinking about coaching and I started doing the badges in my early 30s. As I got older, I observed what managers and coaches do more. I started to think about the game differently and I finished my UEFA Pro License that summer when I came here.
Chris Powell, my manager at Charlton, was probably the one who I first started to look at as someone I could learn from. He made me captain and started treating me differently to how I’d been treated before. He got me thinking about the game differently. As a player, you only really think about getting out on the training pitch and playing matches. You don’t realise the preparation that goes into one training session, let alone building a squad and a season.
What stood out with Chris was the way he treated people. He was the best manager I worked under, but a lot of it was because of the way he made me feel. A big part of management is about how you treat people – the human side of it – and I learned a plenty from Chris.
In your early career you had loan spells that paved the way to a long professional playing career. Does this type of experience help when you are dealing with young players?
As a manager, all of my personal experiences help me when I’m dealing with players. I can speak from experience because I’ve been in the same situations as them. If we’ve got young loan players in, I can say I’ve been through it when I had to leave a big club to go and forge a career. I’ve been a new player at a new club and had to fit in quickly. I’ve played at all the levels, so I think that helps me to relate to the players. I’ve not long come out of the game as a player, so that still gives me that relationship with them, which is important.
How do you look back on your first managerial job at Charlton?
I think I did a really good job there. I took over when they were 22nd in the league and we finished 13th. I felt I did a good job in difficult circumstances and I’d earned the right to take it on, but that’s football and it got my name out there. It helped me to get this opportunity. I was thankful to be given the opportunity to be Charlton manager in the first place because it took a leap of faith. I hadn’t managed before, but I had a big affiliation with the club. I helped Charlton when they were struggling, but they decided to go a different way - it hasn’t really improved since. I’m grateful for all the opportunities that I’ve had in football.
It's almost two years since you joined us - do you think you’re a better manager now?
During the difficult times I had to show resilience, but I think I’m sat here now as a miles better manager than I was than when I first took over. That’s because I’ve had to go through some hardship, I’ve had to learn some difficult lessons after making mistakes. What I’ve always done in tough periods is to dig in and work extremely hard. I’ve tried to acknowledge my mistakes, so that I can learn and improve.
I probably thought I knew a lot about Wimbledon before I came here, but I hadn’t really scratched the surface. It’s only when you get here - meeting the people involved and supporters - that you get a true feeling about the football club you work for. I’ve learned about how unique and special the Club is. That took a while, to be fair, but I’ve thrown myself into it, and I feel two years on that I know everything about this club. I’ve got relationships with a lot of the people, and I think I really get it now in terms of what people want.
I understand that we’re always going to be limited in terms of resources, we are never going to be the big boy in the playground, but that’s part of what makes us special as well. It’s about having that underdog mentality of achieving against all the odds. As far as history and heritage, ours is as big as anyone’s. I believe I’ve grown with the football club and grown to love the football club. When I walked through the door on the first day I didn’t know anything about the Club, relatively speaking, and it did take me time, but I like to think I’m well engrained in the Wimbledon way.
A prime example of that is the Volunteers’ Away Day, which we celebrated recently at Swindon. What does that say about the fans at this club?
I didn’t realise how big that side of the Club was, you only have to look back to the days when Wimbledon was reborn and the spirit that the fans showed to start it all again. They will do anything for their football club and that spirit remains. Whenever we need stuff doing – help at the training ground or the stadium – we put a message out and the people come. ‘Rocket’ our kitman has been here for a long time and Trev and Claire, who help out on matchdays, were here from the start after the Club reformed. I didn’t know these people before I came, but now they are friends and that’s how engaged you get with the football club.
Do you sense a real expectation from the fans that we have to win games regularly at a big stadium for the division with 8,000-plus fans watching us?
I think there’s an expectation and there should be really. When I arrived, it was on the back of a really tough season after relegation. It was never going to be a quick fix and I think in that first season there was a real hangover from the previous campaign. We needed to bring in players who hadn’t been a part of that, so that there was no anxiety around the place. We had to improve the squad and bring in proven winners at the level – to move it away from the group that got relegated. That’s what I tried to do, but that takes a few windows. We definitely brought in the players to change the mentality last summer and we’ll be aiming to build on that this summer.
We’ve made huge improvements in everything, the home form being one part of it and there’s no anxiety now. We want to further extend that so it becomes the hardest place for other teams to come in the division That’s where we want to take it to next season.
With the staff around you, do you feel there is more of a structure to continue moving the Club forward?
We have a great structure behind-the-scenes now. Terry came in with me, so he’s been here from the start, and he’s been a rock through it all. Rob and Bayzo were already here and it’s great to have that insight into the football club. Obviously, we brought Craig in as Head of Football Operations to help with recruitment, facilities and organisation – all the things that you don’t want to be distracted by. Ultimately, I think it’s the recruitment that will drive where we want to go with it. We’ve got to get the players in who are the right fit and the right characters. We talk a lot about getting the right types, but to do that you need to have the correct structure. When I came in there was no real structure to with how we recruited and who we recruited. As a club, we now have a clear strategy with the type of players that we want to bring in. My job is to mould all that together.
How do you sum-up the season?
First and foremost, we’ve made great strides and improvements, in terms of where we’ve taken the team after a difficult season last time around. To have got to the second to last game of the season still fighting for a play-off place shows vast improvement. All of the data models have improved. When you come so close you are going to look back at ‘what ifs’, at certain games when we might have done better or situations that went against us – being unlucky with injuries or red cards. We lost a couple of good players in January that affected us as well, so it hasn’t been smooth.
I want to win and I want this club to get promoted. I can’t say I’m satisfied, I wanted to get into those play-offs. It wasn’t to be, we were not quite good enough for various reasons, but there is lots to build on and it has given us a great platform. We’ve had a positive season and we’ve got some really good players on the books for next season. If we can make strides again next time around it will put us in with a great chance of having a successful season.
Last summer we did our business really early – are we aiming to do that again?
That’s the plan and the structure is there to do that. It’s not always straightforward. We have targets that we want, but those targets will have other options as well. It’s about identifying targets and making your moves early. That’s what we did last summer and we’ll try to do that again. We brought in some key players and I want to have our squad together as much as possible on the first day of pre-season. That’s what we managed to do last summer and it was a big factor in our improvement this season.
You’ve mentioned a lot about having leaders in the squad like Jake Reeves. Will you be looking for more players of that ilk, or have we got enough experience in the squad?
We need good players. I think I’ve shown with my selections that if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. I’ve no qualms about playing young players. When I first came in we certainly needed experience, so last summer I sought to bring in players who had success at this level. That was a key reason for bringing Jake Reeves in, he had experienced promotions with Wimbledon and Stevenage. I knew all about him and his character, so he was an important signing for us. Success at the level is an important factor, but we just want to bring in good players and good characters who fit what we want to do here and what it takes to play for Wimbledon.
How grateful are you for the support you received during the tough times last season?
It was a tough period and perhaps most clubs would have made a change in similar circumstances. The results were not happening, but I think we had shown enough in the early part of the season and there had been mitigations with the injuries we suffered and the players we lost in January.
I was lucky enough to have support from the Club, but I feel I’ve had that from day one. I’ve had that support from the Chairman, the board and the staff. It’s been great and I’d like to think that was rewarded this season with a much more positive campaign. We didn’t quite get where we wanted to, but I think everyone is feeling different to last season and optimistic about what could follow.
You grew up supporting Arsenal, but signed for Tottenham Hotspur at the age of 11. What was it like signing for the bitter enemy?
When you are a kid you just love playing football, so the minute that a professional club shows interest you don’t really care who it is. I got scouted by my local Sunday team, so I went training there and ended up signing schoolboy forms. After making progress I was offered a two-year apprenticeship and then I signed a professional contract.
My Dad is an Arsenal fan and so too are all his mates, but it was a great football upbringing for me at Tottenham. That’s why I was never looking to leave, but I was lucky enough to progress through the ranks and play for the first-team. My dream when I was a kid was to play in a North London derby and I managed to do it, but just for the wrong team! I wouldn’t change it for anything though. The derby I played in was the season of the ‘Invincibles’ when Arsenal won the league at White Hart Lane. Arsenal were 2-0 up, but it ended up 2-2 with goals by Defoe and Redknapp.
And you played with great players in that era, who stood out from the Spurs team in the time you were there?
Ledley King was the captain and if it wasn’t for his knees he probably would have been one of the best ever. As far as English centre backs go, he was unbelievable. Jermaine Defoe was a brilliant goalscorer and Robbie Keane was probably the talisman of our team. If we were ever in trouble and needed a goal, ‘Keano’ was the man!
What stands out for you as a football fan from your childhood?
I went to some unbelievable European games, I was in Copenhagen in 1994 when Arsenal won the Cup Winners’ Cup and the following year we got to the final in Paris, but Nayim scored that famous goal to defeat us. I was also at Wembley in 1998 when Arsenal won the double and I was also at the games when we won leagues. I was lucky to be taken to some famous games and Arsenal were pretty good – they used to win trophies back then!
Who were your inspirations as a kid?
Paul Merson, Ian Wright, and Tony Adams, but later on came Dennis Bergkamp. When Ian Wright signed he was probably my first hero – he used to score every week.
Did playing in the Premier League provide the highlight of your playing career?
Yes, I made my Premier League debut at Fratton Park. I only scored once for Tottenham, but I managed to get that Premier League goal! I scored in every league, which is a nice thing to look back on. I enjoyed a couple of promotions, winning League Two with Notts County and League One with Charlton, before playing in the Championship. Playing for Spurs in the Premier League and the promotions were the real highlights.
What would you say was the toughest challenge in your playing days?
Although I was ready to leave Tottenham, I did take stock and knew I was dropping down, so it was a bit daunting for me. I ended up playing over 100 games for Colchester after that, so I became a bit of a seasoned pro there.
The toughest spell for me was when I was coming towards the end of my playing days. There’s a realisation that your body can’t do what it used to be able to do. You start to think, ‘what’s next?’
I was quite lucky that I got into coaching while I was still playing, but when I first stopped playing I did struggle. I loved my playing days and all I ever wanted to do was play football. It was tough to take, but I was lucky that I was still involved in the game.
Did that make you appreciate how much some footballers struggle when their playing days are over?
It’s started to be spoken about more now, in terms of the struggles that footballers face when they come to the end. As a footballer, you live a real regimented life, it’s all routine based and you are doing something that you love. It’s almost impossible to fill the void. What I do now is the next best thing, I’m out on the grass with that camaraderie and I still get the buzz of winning. Winning and losing makes you feel alive, so I can appreciate how much footballers struggle when it’s all over.
How will you switch off during the summer?
I will go away on a golf trip with my mates for a few days. I play off a 15, but it should be 18 - my mates won’t let me off the hook!
I go away with my wife and kids, spend some time with them as they probably suffer the most with this job! I’m a bit more relaxed than I am during the season. On Sundays during the season I go and watch my lad play, but I’ve always got one eye on the job. Watching him play is a bit of a release, but beyond that I’m always watching football and prepping for the next game. Now there’s a period coming up when I can switch off a bit, but me and Craig will be talking most days, working, and arranging Zoom meetings, so that we’re ready for next season.
My lad Bobby comes to every Wimbledon game and so does my wife Lucy, but Phoebe is 14 now and wants to be off doing other things with her mates. Bobby loves it, he has all the kits and he is a ballboy for most games. He was a bit gutted the other week when we scored that goal in the last minute as Rocket put him on the other side! They all love it and they’ve completely bought into following the Dons.
